<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>I understand that you don't like #return, #return: etc. but they do exist and are intended to be used. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>hmm it is not that I do not like them as "we have to change them". My comment about them was more "conceptual/design oriented" that a claim to change them... it was just a comment to think about the matter. I use #return and the other without problem. I do not think we have to change that.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think I'm still not understanding your objection then. Using Juan's recent changesets to eliminate non-local returns in OMeta as an example, why do you prefer that approach to using #methodReturn: within the exception handler? (I really do want to understand your objection) </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I prefer using the normal ^ instead of #methodReturn: because: </div><div>1) currently, using the ^ in an exc. handler works correctly and does not break the exception mechanism </div><div>2) doing a non local return using the #methodReturn: message instead the ^, adds a new way of doing the same thing as ^, so it adds accidental complexity and redundancy that it is not really needed because of 1)</div><div>3) because of 2), now we have to teach beginners that when in an exc. handler, and only there, they have to use #methodReturn: to do a non local return, making the language more difficult to understand </div><div>4) it breaks compatibility with other Smalltalks because of something that currently, is not a problem.</div><div><br></div><div>So, that is basically it... I do not see a real advantage doing this.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div><div>Hernan.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> To me, the secondary/outer exception handler approach is more complex but more importantly it bypasses Exception in the sense that you're telling Exception 'yeah, yeah... everything is fine' when really it's not fine... you're not fully handling the exception in the handler.</div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> Not providing a mechanism to perform a non-local return because you don't like the mechanism that already exists for the other use cases seems to add (cognitive) complexity. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We are desynchronized :-) </div><div>I'm sorry if I was not clear enough, it was not my intention to say that I do not like what already exist.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> Since your argument seems to stem from the fact that you don't like having to hand off control to ex in [:ex| ex doThisForMe], how about instead making the case for deviating from ANSI and eliminating all those other methods? That at least would be consistent.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, I'm not against "having to hand off control to ex".</div><div>I hope I was more clear this time :-)</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes... sort of :-)</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div><div>Hernan</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div><div>Hernan</div><div> </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Phil </div></div></div> </blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-weight:bold">Hernán Wilkinson</span><br>Agile Software Development, Teaching & Coaching</span></font></span></span></span></strong></span></div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Phone: +54-011</span></font></span></span></span></strong></span><font face="tahoma, sans-serif" size="2">-4893-2057</font></div><div><strong style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small"><span style="font-size:8pt"><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Twitter: @HernanWilkinson</span></font></span></span></strong></div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">site: <a href="http://www.10pines.com/" style="color:rgb(17,65,112)" target="_blank">http://www.10Pines.com</a></span></font></span></span></span></strong></span></div><div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse:collapse">Address: Alem 896</span></font>, Floor 6, Buenos Aires, Argentina</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> </blockquote></div></div> </blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-weight:bold">Hernán Wilkinson</span><br>Agile Software Development, Teaching & Coaching</span></font></span></span></span></strong></span></div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Phone: +54-011</span></font></span></span></span></strong></span><font face="tahoma, sans-serif" size="2">-4893-2057</font></div><div><strong style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small"><span style="font-size:8pt"><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Twitter: @HernanWilkinson</span></font></span></span></strong></div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">site: <a href="http://www.10pines.com/" style="color:rgb(17,65,112)" target="_blank">http://www.10Pines.com</a></span></font></span></span></span></strong></span></div><div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse:collapse">Address: Alem 896</span></font>, Floor 6, Buenos Aires, Argentina</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>