<div dir="ltr">I was thinking today if adding the stop from compiling/removing a method would not be "over-design"...<div>I mean, if a tool wants to stop a method from being compiled/removed, wouldn't it be responsibility of that tool? </div><div>Let's say the file in wants to do that, then before compiling/removing a method it could check if it should do it or not for example.</div><div>I know that having that feature in the meta-model sounds to be more "re-usable", but again I'm thinking if that is the case.</div><div>In the case of announcing about changes I think it makes sense, it is a different use case and it proved to be useful</div><div>Anyway, do not kill me! I is just a thought :-)</div><div><br></div><div>Hernan.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 12:01 PM Hernan Wilkinson <<a href="mailto:hernan.wilkinson@10pines.com">hernan.wilkinson@10pines.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">well... if you think that the "whole world" can do something different that they can right now for the normal means... :-)<div>I mean, I understand your point but in Smalltalk anybody can do anything, but I agree that the system change notifier was not meant for "asking", it is just a notifier as its name says.</div><div>On the other hand, using the notifier to ask makes it less coupled, as with the notifications...</div><div>Either solution is fine with me, each one has its pro and cons</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 11:31 AM Juan Vuletich <<a href="mailto:juan@jvuletich.org" target="_blank">juan@jvuletich.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#ffffff">
    On 1/24/2020 4:34 PM, Phil B via Cuis-dev wrote:
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">I'm fine with that if that's what makes sense to
          everyone.  Ideally, the steps/stages I think we need to
          consider are 1) 'is it OK to do what I want to do?', 2) 'I'm
          about to do it', 3) 'it's done'.   3 is what we have
          currently.  1 & 2 could be collapsed into one step (the
          reason I did that with the #isOK* methods was that seemed to
          be consistent to how other parts of the image, such as
          Morphic, like to do similar things)  I'm currently mainly
          concerned with class and method changes but if there are other
          things we should be looking at doing this for, let's try to
          make sure we've considered them as well so we have a good
          solution.</div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    In general, I think it is ok to allow anybody to be notified of
    something about to happen and/or just happened. I'm not so sure if
    it is ok to allow anybody to prevent from (for example) a method
    being compiled. Telling the whole world seems ok to me. Asking
    permission to the whole world sounds like a bit too much. But I'm
    not sure at all...<br>
    <br>
    Thanks,<br>
    <pre cols="72">-- 
Juan Vuletich
<a href="http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org" target="_blank">www.cuis-smalltalk.org</a>
<a href="https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev" target="_blank">https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev</a>
<a href="https://github.com/jvuletich" target="_blank">https://github.com/jvuletich</a>
<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vuletich-75611b3" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vuletich-75611b3</a>
@JuanVuletich</pre>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 2:15
            PM Hernan Wilkinson <<a href="mailto:hernan.wilkinson@10pines.com" target="_blank">hernan.wilkinson@10pines.com</a>>
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">With the SystemChangeNotifier (events), you
              can get notified que a method was added, changed, removed,
              etc., but you can not stop adding/changing or removing a
              method from happening. That is the difference I see with
              what you propose.
              <div>We could "enhance" the system change notifier to add
                that functionality, and I think that would be better
                because it is more consisten with what the system does
                right now and it would not be coupled with a class
                hierarchy and no redefinition of methods would be
                necessary.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>If you ask me, I would enhance the system change
                notifier</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Hernan.</div>
            </div>
            <br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">
              <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at
                6:56 PM Phil B <<a href="mailto:pbpublist@gmail.com" target="_blank">pbpublist@gmail.com</a>>
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div dir="ltr">A correction / clarification...</div>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 23,
                      2020 at 4:35 PM Phil B <<a href="mailto:pbpublist@gmail.com" target="_blank">pbpublist@gmail.com</a>>
                      wrote:</div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div class="gmail_quote">
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                            <div dir="ltr">
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div>I think this functionality is
                                  interesting, I would add it making the
                                  change of #compile:... (not signaling
                                  an exception) and without the
                                  implementation in Object class (I
                                  would remove #noteCompilation... from
                                  Object class too). </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Other than being a composite of
                            #methodAdded, #methodAddedInProtocol and
                            #methodChanged messages, do you see any
                            functional difference from what I'd get from
                            SystemChangeNotifier?</div>
                          <div> <br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>What I was trying to say/ask was 'do you see
                      anything that I can't functionally recreate from
                      what I'd get from SystemChangeNotifier?'  (i.e.
                      yes, there's a difference between the mechanisms
                      but, unless I'm missing something, I think I can
                      get what I need using SystemChangeNotifier)<br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <br clear="all">
            <div><br>
            </div>
            -- <br>
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div dir="ltr">
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-weight:bold">Hernán
                                                    Wilkinson</span><br>
                                                  Agile Software
                                                  Development, Teaching
                                                  & Coaching</span></font></span></span></span></strong></span></div>
                                  <div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Phone:
                                                  +54-011</span></font></span></span></span></strong></span><font size="2" face="tahoma, sans-serif">-4893-2057</font></div>
                                  <div><strong style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small"><span style="font-size:8pt"><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Twitter:
                                              @HernanWilkinson</span></font></span></span></strong></div>
                                  <div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">site: <a href="http://www.10pines.com/" style="color:rgb(17,65,112)" target="_blank">http://www.10Pines.com</a></span></font></span></span></span></strong></span></div>
                                  <div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse:collapse">Address: Alem 896</span></font>,
                                    Floor 6, Buenos Aires, Argentina</div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-weight:bold">Hernán Wilkinson</span><br>Agile Software Development, Teaching & Coaching</span></font></span></span></span></strong></span></div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Phone: +54-011</span></font></span></span></span></strong></span><font face="tahoma, sans-serif" size="2">-4893-2057</font></div><div><strong style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small"><span style="font-size:8pt"><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Twitter: @HernanWilkinson</span></font></span></span></strong></div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">site: <a href="http://www.10pines.com/" style="color:rgb(17,65,112)" target="_blank">http://www.10Pines.com</a></span></font></span></span></span></strong></span></div><div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse:collapse">Address: Alem 896</span></font>, Floor 6, Buenos Aires, Argentina</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-weight:bold">Hernán Wilkinson</span><br>Agile Software Development, Teaching & Coaching</span></font></span></span></span></strong></span></div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Phone: +54-011</span></font></span></span></span></strong></span><font face="tahoma, sans-serif" size="2">-4893-2057</font></div><div><strong style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small"><span style="font-size:8pt"><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">Twitter: @HernanWilkinson</span></font></span></span></strong></div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><strong><span style="font-size:8pt"><span><span style="font-size:small"><font size="2"><span style="font-weight:normal">site: <a href="http://www.10pines.com/" style="color:rgb(17,65,112)" target="_blank">http://www.10Pines.com</a></span></font></span></span></span></strong></span></div><div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="border-collapse:collapse">Address: Alem 896</span></font>, Floor 6, Buenos Aires, Argentina</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>