No worries! Since I don't have a computer anymore I'll most likely end up buying a RPI to run Cuis smalltalk. I'm not in a current situation to buy anything right now so as I said I'll be using the C++ smalltalk-80 bare metal on my RPI zero W for now. <br><br><br>Sent from ProtonMail mobile<br><br><br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>On Jul 19, 2021, 8:52 AM, Nicola Mingotti < nmingotti@gmail.com> wrote:<blockquote class="protonmail_quote"><br><html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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<body>
<br>
Ops, probably I raised the ARM thing suggesting to run in BeagleBone
or RPi. <br>
<br>
I still never run Cuis there. I just supposed it should work, excuse
me.<br>
<br>
I think i run Squeak there some time ago, but i can't be sure 100%.
<br>
<br>
bye<br>
n.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/19/21 1:40 PM, Joseph Turco via
Cuis-dev wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:RvVoOZoIr06EZuM9mzDqNmxE62xmodXVQsCiY8nFqcpYzVnwzZGumIe4wBG33VuuUGV2vFxAwD3i2WsWLRs6oJCy2-FafEBarj9fqi-iXrY=@protonmail.com">
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Its the cog version, not stack. By lag btw I mean dragging windows
are choppy. Typing is not as real time as it should me. Its the
latest version on the opensmalltalk git<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from ProtonMail mobile<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
On Jul 19, 2021, 7:37 AM, Bruce O'Neel <
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch">bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch</a>> wrote:
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote"><br>
<div>Hi,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just out of interest the Cog interpreter rather than the
stack one? The Cog one is a JIT and much faster.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>squeak -version<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>will tell you this. Send it to me if it is unclear.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>bruce</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="ik_mail_quote">
<div>On 2021-07-19T13:32:20.000+02:00, Joseph Turco
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jturk90@protonmail.com"><jturk90@protonmail.com></a> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="ws-ng-quote">
<div class="ws-ng-mail-style--461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">Yeah
see I think that's my problem. Its a RPI zero w. 512mb ram
and a single core 1ghz processor. I guess it needs a RPI
3b+ and faster. Oh well I guess its smalltalk-80 for now.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from ProtonMail mobile<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
On Jul 19, 2021, 7:29 AM, Bruce O'Neel < <a
class="defaultMailLink"
href="mailto:bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote
class="protonmail_quote-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ"><br>
<div>Hi,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I run Squeak, so same VM but not the same Image, on
both a PI3B+ and a PI400. Both don't give the
impression of being laggy, but.... I am running them
using X11 remote displays. So therefore my "boy this is
slow" reaction will be absorbed by "network seems
slow." <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I know others who use Squeak on PI4s and seem happy.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>bruce</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="ik_mail_quote-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
<div>On 2021-07-19T13:23:11.000+02:00, Joseph Turco <<a
class="defaultMailLink"
href="mailto:jturk90@protonmail.com" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">jturk90@protonmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="ws-ng-quote-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
<div
class="ws-ng-mail-style--461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">Its
funny you bring up arm Bruce,<br>
<br>
I tried to get Cuis to run on my raspberry pi zero W
as my PC is having some major issues (its over 10
years old) and I wasn't surprised, but it was very
slow and laggy. I'm assuming the CPU isn't enough
for it. You have ideas on how I could optimize it? I
may end up having to use the c++ original
smalltalk-80 baremetal that came out recently...<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from ProtonMail mobile<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
On Jul 19, 2021, 7:08 AM, Bruce O'Neel < <a
class="defaultMailLink"
href="mailto:bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">bruce.oneel@pckswarms.ch</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote
class="protonmail_quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ"><br>
<div>In terms of 64 bit ARM....<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>RPF (Raspberry PI Foundation) recently donated
optimized bitblt for ARM64 [1] like they had done
in the past for ARM32. This is not in a current
VM for long and not very interesting reasons but
soonish they will be. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If I remember I'll send a note around when
ARM64 should speed up on the graphics side.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>bruce</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[1]. - <a class="defaultMailLink"
href="http://forum.world.st/BitBlt-performance-work-for-ARM32-amp-64-td5128015.html"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
data-ik="ik-secure" moz-do-not-send="true">Squeak
- Dev - BitBlt performance work for ARM32 &
64 </a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
class="ik_mail_quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
<div>On 2021-07-17T10:20:55.000+02:00, Gerald Klix
via Cuis-dev <<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="mailto:cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
<pre style="white-space:normal;">Hi Joseph,<br>
<br>
see below.<br>
<br>
On 7/17/21 12:23 AM, Joseph Turco via Cuis-dev
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
Ah OK got it. For the record I wasn't
downplaying or hating Cuis. I really enjoy
using it. Speaking of ARM, it would be
interesting to see how it runs on a
raspberry pi4 4 or 8GB model.<br>
</blockquote>
It's ok as long you don't use to big a display
size.<br>
1920x1080 works well, even with the
VectorGrahics package<br>
(as long you use the plugin).<br>
<br>
With one 3840x2160 monitor (or TV) you can
watch it drawing<br>
windows on X11. The Linux frame-buffer driver
(thanks again Ken)<br>
seems to be a bit faster. AFIK X11 uses the
frame-buffer on Raspbian,<br>
therefore it's no surprise that another layer
of indirection<br>
just makes it slower.<br>
It gives you this nice vintage feeling<br>
described here:<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://www.righto.com/2017/10/the-xerox-alto-smalltalk-and-rewriting.html"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
data-ik="ik-secure" moz-do-not-send="true">www.righto.com/2017/10/the-...</a><br>
<br>
'the team described performance as between
"majestic" and "glacial"'<br>
<br>
<br>
I also tried two 3840x2160 in portrait mode.<br>
Graphics performance is somewhere between
glacial<br>
and tectonic, but -- hey -- it works.<br>
<br>
All of this was done with 64-bit kernel<br>
and a 32bit user-space.<br>
<br>
I presume all if this would be much faster,<br>
if the VM used OpenVG<br>
(<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="http://www.khronos.org/files/openvg-quick-reference-card.pdf"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
data-ik="ik-secure" moz-do-not-send="true">www.khronos.org/files/openv...</a>)<br>
<br>
<br>
Just my 0.01€,<br>
<br>
Gerald<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
<br>
Sent from ProtonMail mobile<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
On Jul 16, 2021, 2:52 PM, Phil B via
Cuis-dev wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
Hi Joseph,<br>
<br>
Smalltalk in general will feel a bit laggy
vs most other environments just given the
nature of how the VM works and how the
image processes input. (i.e. it's very
indirect) Cuis input handling does not
feel as fluid to me as a Squeak image.
This is one area I suspect Squeak has put
a bit more effort into than we have to
date. I feel it even on relatively snappy
multi-GHz, multi-core machines and it does
start to get painful on single-core 1GHz
ARM boards if you do much beyond just
typing.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Phil<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 2:39 PM Joseph
Turco via Cuis-dev <<a
class="defaultMailLink"
href="mailto:cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
I am running it on a Core 2 duo vpro (64
bit) with 2GB of ram. I am planning on
upgrading the ram and swapping out the
HDD with a SSD or another mechanical
drive. I'm using the squeak VM that is
listed in the install instructions, and
I've also used the one that's built into
the "Cuis university" package. I moved
the wireless keyboard receiver to the
front of my computer and it helped. But
I get slight hiccups with input very
rarely now. I never got it in official
squeak packages (v5.3). It might be my
computer as its aged as you can tell
from what processor family I am quoting.<br>
<br>
Sent from ProtonMail mobile<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
On Jul 16, 2021, 12:35 PM, Juan Vuletich
< <a class="defaultMailLink"
href="mailto:juan@jvuletich.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">juan@jvuletich.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
Cuis should run reasonably well on
anything with at least 1GHz and 2GB.
What CPU are you using ? How much RAM?
What VM? Is that a 32bit or 64bit OS?
Do you feel keyboard input lag on
Squeak too? Other apps? Do you see
mouse lag too?<br>
<br>
On 7/15/2021 11:00 AM, Joseph Turco
via Cuis-dev wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
Juan I had another question for you
or anyone really. On my desktop
(she's a bit old) I'm getting some
input lag. The distro I'm using is
AntiX, and doesn't use system.d. is
this a problem for Cuis?<br>
<br>
Sent from ProtonMail mobile<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
On Jul 14, 2021, 2:34 PM, Juan
Vuletich via Cuis-dev < <a
class="defaultMailLink"
href="mailto:cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
Hi Joseph,<br>
<br>
On 7/14/2021 3:24 PM, Joseph Turco
via Cuis-dev wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
Hello everyone,<br>
<br>
I hope I am not bothering anyone
with this question(s), I am a
new<br>
smalltalker and programmer. I
decided to use Cuis because its
more in<br>
line with smalltalk-80, where
its easier to find beginner
(beginner in<br>
the programming sense) books.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Welcome to Smalltalk and Cuis!<br>
<br>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
I am currently reading
'smalltalk, objects, and design,
by Chamond<br>
Liu. Is this a good book? I know
the 'blue book' exists, but it<br>
assumes you can already program.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yes, it is a very good book. But
also keep in mind we wrote a book<br>
specifically for newcomers to
Cuis!<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/TheCuisBook"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/T...</a><br>
<br>
There is also a good amount of
documentation in the Documentation
folder<br>
in Cuis, in <a
class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Learning-Cuis"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/L...</a>
and in<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Learning-Cuis"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/L...</a>
.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
class="ws-ng-quote-461043eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ-461046eJzz9HPyjwAABGYBgQ">
My second question was the
resolution of the VM. I noticed
VS squeak<br>
the windows were much smaller
(higher resolution screen
layout) than<br>
Cuis, this really isn't a
problem, more so, did I not
configure<br>
something correctly? Please
excuse my ignorance.<br>
<br>
- Joseph<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Both in Squeak and in Cuis you can
evaluate<br>
<br>
Display extent<br>
<br>
to get the size of the Display as
seen by Smalltalk. It is best if
this<br>
matches the physical screen
resolution (although that is not
the default<br>
on MacBooks). In any case, the
difference you see is because in
Cuis the<br>
default fonts are larger than
Squeak's. This is configurable in
Cuis.<br>
Play a bit with the World menu.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
--<br>
Juan Vuletich<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.cuis-smalltalk.org</a><br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/C...</a><br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://github.com/jvuletich"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">github.com/jvuletich</a><br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vuletich-75611b3"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vu...</a><br>
@JuanVuletich<br>
<br>
--<br>
Cuis-dev mailing list<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="mailto:Cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st</a><br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://lists.cuis.st/mailman/listinfo/cuis-dev"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">lists.cuis.st/mailman/listi...</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
--<br>
Juan Vuletich<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.cuis-smalltalk.org</a><br>
<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/C...</a><br>
<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://github.com/jvuletich"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">github.com/jvuletich</a><br>
<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vuletich-75611b3"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vu...</a><br>
@JuanVuletich<br>
<br>
--<br>
Cuis-dev mailing list<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="mailto:Cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">Cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st</a><br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://lists.cuis.st/mailman/listinfo/cuis-dev"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" data-ik="ik-secure"
moz-do-not-send="true">lists.cuis.st/mailman/listi...</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
-- <br>
Cuis-dev mailing list<br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="mailto:Cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st</a><br>
<a class="defaultMailLink"
href="https://lists.cuis.st/mailman/listinfo/cuis-dev"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
data-ik="ik-secure" moz-do-not-send="true">lists.cuis.st/mailman/listi...</a></pre>
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