<div dir="ltr">Hi David!<br><div> I like your idea. The only problem I see is who is going to maintain that version, I mean, who is going to check every update to see if that can be applied to that version, test it, etc. </div><div> One way to do it is, for people interested in having a version like that, to clone the repo and maintain it as a kind of stable release. We would not have one stable release "for the community" but at least one per person that needs it.</div><div><br></div><div> Anyway, this brings us back to the unsolved problem of applying changes in a safe manner ... there was a thread about that a couple of weeks ago if I'm not mistaken.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!</div><div>Hernan.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 4:31 PM Juan Vuletich via Cuis-dev <<a href="mailto:cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st">cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
Hi David,<br>
<br>
On 8/7/2021 8:25 AM, David Faitelson via Cuis-dev wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Dear all,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
First I would like to say a big big thank you for the amazing
work you put into Cuis. I think it is one of the best
development platforms I had the pleasure of working with (it's
closest competitor being only the original Smalltalk-80
environment
<span id="gmail-m_-6850792192165195905🙂">🙂</span>). <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Thanks! It is nice and encouraging to know this.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
To quote C.A.R Hoare, "Here is a language so far ahead of its
time, that it was not only an improvement on its predecessors,
but also on nearly all its successors."</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
In the last few years I have developed several non trivial
applications on top of Cuis and Pharo: A parser generator and
IDE, an educational environment for studying Turing machines, a
compiler and IDE for a parallel programming language for Arduino
boards, an educational math game, and others. <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Please consider publishing your projects too! They sound very
interesting. You can host them in the Cuis-Smalltalk GitHub
organization, on your separate GitHub repos, or on any other code
repository server.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
So my interest in Cuis is more as a development platform. And I
think that ultimately this is what we all want. That more and
more people will use Cuis to develop their systems.
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
However, at the moment (correct me if I'm wrong), there is no
stable distribution that one can base their application
development on. I can clone the latest repository and packages,
and freeze a snapshot, but once development moves on I cannot
simply update my system to the latest version, because bug
fixes, new features, and incompatible changes are mixed in the
same development stream.
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
That is true. Whether it is a good or a bad thing is a matter of
personal preference.<br>
<br>
For me, the best option is to keep own development in package files,
and from time to time, to load them in a fresh updated Cuis image,
and run tests. If something breaks, parallel debugging with the
previous working system should quickly point to the problem. The
method annotation will include the numbered change set that modified
the code, and usually studying the change set in the previous
working system will help finding out the modifications needed in own
code.<br>
<br>
But you might prefer avoiding the update altogether, and that's ok
too.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
What I think would be very helpful is to have a stable
distribution of the core and associated packages that would only
change to fix bugs without affecting the interfaces. </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sounds like a reasonable option.<br>
<br>
But please don't call it "Stable". Up to 2016, we used to maintain
<a href="https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk" target="_blank">https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk</a> , calling it
"Stable Releases". The problem was that most newcomers tried that
instead of Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev, and therefore used a very outdated
system. Eventually, I emptied the repo and marked it for deletion.<br>
<br>
As someone else in this thread said, I think "LTS" or "Long Term
Support" is a much better name. See
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_support" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_support</a> . It makes clear
that you are trading new features and improvements for stability.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I am more than willing to contribute my time to develop this
concept, and I have a few ideas about how to do this, but I hope
that I can find other people that think this is important and
are interested in cooperating on this.
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
What do you think? is this worthwhile? what would be a good way
to proceed?</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think it is a good idea, if there are people willing to maintain
it. I won't be spending much time working on it, but I'm willing to,
for example, handle version numbers or tags in main Cuis repo in a
meaningful and coordinated way. I'm also willing to help maintainers
understand any change that gives trouble.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Cheers,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
David<br>
</div>
<div>
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<br>
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<div id="gmail-m_-6850792192165195905Signature">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
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</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Juan Vuletich
<a href="http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org" target="_blank">www.cuis-smalltalk.org</a>
<a href="https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev" target="_blank">https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev</a>
<a href="https://github.com/jvuletich" target="_blank">https://github.com/jvuletich</a>
<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vuletich-75611b3" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vuletich-75611b3</a>
@JuanVuletich</pre>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:xx-small;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="font-size:small"><a href="https://10pines.com/" style="font-family:Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:medium" target="_blank"><img width="108" src="https://10pines.github.io/email-signature/10pines-firma@2x.png" style="margin-bottom: 0.5em;"></a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:medium"></span><h1 style="margin:0px;font-size:14px">Hernán Wilkinson</h1><h2 style="margin:0px 0px 1em;font-size:14px;color:rgb(100,100,100)">Software Developer, Teacher & Coach</h2><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(100,100,100);font-size:12px">Alem 896, Floor 6, Buenos Aires, Argentina</p><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(100,100,100);font-size:12px">+54 11 6091 3125</p><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(100,100,100);font-size:12px">@HernanWilkinson</p></div></span></div></div>