<p dir="ltr">Jaromir,<br></p>
<p dir="ltr">When Alan Kay and Adele Goldberg were testing smalltalk-80, they were using kids in school to play with it, using a teaching style called constructivist learning. They let the kids explore the system, and then ask questions for things they were not sure about. You would be surprised what some kids came up with!</p>
<p dir="ltr">Sadly we don't have Alan's or Adele's beside us all the time, so that's what makes it so difficult. Dispute Cuis trying to stay true to st-80, it cannot be st-80 as that no longer exists, unless you run it emulated as some have done. I think another problem, is that for me at least, I come from trying to learn imperative programming languages, and expect to execute it via command line and get my output. This is not the case with smalltalk, and I have still not adjusted to it and done anything useful. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Regards,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Joseph Turco</p>
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 23, 2024, 4:26 a.m. Jaromir Matas via Cuis-dev <<a href="mailto:cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st">cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br></div>
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<div>On 22-Jun-24 4:01:06 AM, "lewis--- via Cuis-dev" <<a href="mailto:cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">cuis-dev@lists.cuis.st</a>> wrote:</div></div><div><br></div>
<div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc"><blockquote cite="http://3a0584e16b495a4d3c9fff30b9e6668d@mail.msen.com" type="cite" class="m_5181041603020445734cite2" style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<p>This is a really good video conversation. </p></blockquote><font face="Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc"><span><br></span></div>Great indeed!</span></font></div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc"><font face="Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font><blockquote cite="http://3a0584e16b495a4d3c9fff30b9e6668d@mail.msen.com" type="cite" class="m_5181041603020445734cite2" style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><p>Juan explains Smalltalk and Cuis from first principles, with historical context and highlighting perspectives</p></blockquote><font face="Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc"><span><br></span></div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc"><span>I'm not sure I understand the part about "knowledge" though: "Write, describe, communicate knowledge" - what does it mean exactly? Is it about Smalltalk as a language? The language itself is not that different from other (high-level) languages. A good language certainly is a great help to formulate things but it's still a "programming language". </span><span>I guess there more to it I didn't get :) </span></div></span></font><font face="Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc"><span><br></span></div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc"><span>Or is it about the whole concept including the live "OS-like" environment? But where the "writing knowledge" fits in?</span></div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc"><span><br></span></div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc">Other question - Smalltalk was originally supposed to be the universal environment above the hardware level. Everything below the VM is the hardware (a machine language), everything above the VM is Smalltalk (the UI, apps...). Even the VM is written in a simplified Smalltalk (Slang); what was supposed to be the role of C - to stay as an intermediary between the Smalltalk level and the hardware or was (is?) it supposed to be eliminated somehow eventually?</div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc"><br></div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc">And one more note about "easy to use, intuitive, for children" - this refers to the DynaBook concept, right? Smalltalk as a language is a lot of things but certainly not those things :) Simple syntax doesn't mean simplicity but it thank god it saves me from remembering tons of syntactic rules :) Anyway, many thanks for explaining the DynaBook concept!</div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc"><br></div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc">Thanks again for the great talk!</div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc">best,</div><div id="m_5181041603020445734x405daaafacbd4dc">Jaromir</div><br></span></font><blockquote cite="http://3a0584e16b495a4d3c9fff30b9e6668d@mail.msen.com" type="cite" class="m_5181041603020445734cite2" style="font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><p> that may not be obvious even to experienced Smalltalkers.</p>
<p>Highly recommended.</p>
<p>Dave</p>
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<p id="m_5181041603020445734reply-intro">On 2024-06-19 23:21, Mark Volkmann via Cuis-dev wrote:</p>
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<h1 style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;background-image:none;background-position:0% 0%;background-size:auto;background-repeat:repeat;background-origin:padding-box;background-clip:border-box;word-break:break-word;font-family:Roboto,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:2.8rem;overflow:hidden;max-height:5.6rem;display:-webkit-box;text-overflow:ellipsis;color:rgb(15,15,15)"><span style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-size:small">See Cuis Smalltalk and the History of Computing's Future (with Juan Vuletich) at</span></span></h1>
<div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sokb6zZC-ZE&t=3105s" rel="noopener noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sokb6zZC-ZE&t=3105s</a></div>
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<div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">R. Mark Volkmann</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Object Computing, Inc.</span></span></div>
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