[Cuis-dev] Hello, new Cuis smalltalk user here!
Bruce O'Neel
bruce.oneel at pckswarms.ch
Mon Jul 19 04:29:49 PDT 2021
Hi,
I run Squeak, so same VM but not the same Image, on both a PI3B+ and a
PI400. Both don't give the impression of being laggy, but.... I am
running them using X11 remote displays. So therefore my "boy this is
slow" reaction will be absorbed by "network seems slow."
I know others who use Squeak on PI4s and seem happy.
cheers
bruce
On 2021-07-19T13:23:11.000+02:00, Joseph Turco
<jturk90 at protonmail.com> wrote:
> Its funny you bring up arm Bruce,
>
> I tried to get Cuis to run on my raspberry pi zero W as my PC is
> having some major issues (its over 10 years old) and I wasn't
> surprised, but it was very slow and laggy. I'm assuming the CPU
> isn't enough for it. You have ideas on how I could optimize it? I
> may end up having to use the c++ original smalltalk-80 baremetal
> that came out recently...
>
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> On Jul 19, 2021, 7:08 AM, Bruce O'Neel < bruce.oneel at pckswarms.ch>
> wrote:
>
>> In terms of 64 bit ARM....
>>
>> RPF (Raspberry PI Foundation) recently donated optimized bitblt
>> for ARM64 [1] like they had done in the past for ARM32. This is
>> not in a current VM for long and not very interesting reasons but
>> soonish they will be.
>>
>> If I remember I'll send a note around when ARM64 should speed up
>> on the graphics side.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> bruce
>>
>> [1]. - Squeak - Dev - BitBlt performance work for ARM32 & 64
>> [http://forum.world.st/BitBlt-performance-work-for-ARM32-amp-64-td5128015.html]
>>
>> On 2021-07-17T10:20:55.000+02:00, Gerald Klix via Cuis-dev
>> <cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joseph,
>>>
>>> see below.
>>>
>>> On 7/17/21 12:23 AM, Joseph Turco via Cuis-dev wrote:
>>>> Ah OK got it. For the record I wasn't downplaying or hating
>>>> Cuis. I really enjoy using it. Speaking of ARM, it would be
>>>> interesting to see how it runs on a raspberry pi4 4 or 8GB
>>>> model.
>>> It's ok as long you don't use to big a display size.
>>> 1920x1080 works well, even with the VectorGrahics package
>>> (as long you use the plugin).
>>>
>>> With one 3840x2160 monitor (or TV) you can watch it drawing
>>> windows on X11. The Linux frame-buffer driver (thanks again Ken)
>>> seems to be a bit faster. AFIK X11 uses the frame-buffer on
>>> Raspbian,
>>> therefore it's no surprise that another layer of indirection
>>> just makes it slower.
>>> It gives you this nice vintage feeling
>>> described here:
>>> www.righto.com/2017/10/the-...
>>> [https://www.righto.com/2017/10/the-xerox-alto-smalltalk-and-rewriting.html]
>>>
>>> 'the team described performance as between "majestic" and
>>> "glacial"'
>>>
>>> I also tried two 3840x2160 in portrait mode.
>>> Graphics performance is somewhere between glacial
>>> and tectonic, but -- hey -- it works.
>>>
>>> All of this was done with 64-bit kernel
>>> and a 32bit user-space.
>>>
>>> I presume all if this would be much faster,
>>> if the VM used OpenVG
>>> (www.khronos.org/files/openv...
>>> [http://www.khronos.org/files/openvg-quick-reference-card.pdf])
>>>
>>> Just my 0.01€,
>>>
>>> Gerald
>>>
>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> On Jul 16, 2021, 2:52 PM, Phil B via Cuis-dev wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Joseph,
>>>>>
>>>>> Smalltalk in general will feel a bit laggy vs most other
>>>>> environments just given the nature of how the VM works and
>>>>> how the image processes input. (i.e. it's very indirect)
>>>>> Cuis input handling does not feel as fluid to me as a Squeak
>>>>> image. This is one area I suspect Squeak has put a bit more
>>>>> effort into than we have to date. I feel it even on
>>>>> relatively snappy multi-GHz, multi-core machines and it does
>>>>> start to get painful on single-core 1GHz ARM boards if you
>>>>> do much beyond just typing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 2:39 PM Joseph Turco via Cuis-dev
>>>>> <cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am running it on a Core 2 duo vpro (64 bit) with 2GB of
>>>>>> ram. I am planning on upgrading the ram and swapping out
>>>>>> the HDD with a SSD or another mechanical drive. I'm using
>>>>>> the squeak VM that is listed in the install instructions,
>>>>>> and I've also used the one that's built into the "Cuis
>>>>>> university" package. I moved the wireless keyboard
>>>>>> receiver to the front of my computer and it helped. But I
>>>>>> get slight hiccups with input very rarely now. I never got
>>>>>> it in official squeak packages (v5.3). It might be my
>>>>>> computer as its aged as you can tell from what processor
>>>>>> family I am quoting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2021, 12:35 PM, Juan Vuletich <
>>>>>> juan at jvuletich.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cuis should run reasonably well on anything with at
>>>>>>> least 1GHz and 2GB. What CPU are you using ? How much
>>>>>>> RAM? What VM? Is that a 32bit or 64bit OS? Do you feel
>>>>>>> keyboard input lag on Squeak too? Other apps? Do you see
>>>>>>> mouse lag too?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/15/2021 11:00 AM, Joseph Turco via Cuis-dev wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Juan I had another question for you or anyone really.
>>>>>>>> On my desktop (she's a bit old) I'm getting some input
>>>>>>>> lag. The distro I'm using is AntiX, and doesn't use
>>>>>>>> system.d. is this a problem for Cuis?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 2021, 2:34 PM, Juan Vuletich via Cuis-dev <
>>>>>>>> cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Joseph,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7/14/2021 3:24 PM, Joseph Turco via Cuis-dev
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I hope I am not bothering anyone with this
>>>>>>>>>> question(s), I am a new
>>>>>>>>>> smalltalker and programmer. I decided to use Cuis
>>>>>>>>>> because its more in
>>>>>>>>>> line with smalltalk-80, where its easier to find
>>>>>>>>>> beginner (beginner in
>>>>>>>>>> the programming sense) books.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Welcome to Smalltalk and Cuis!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am currently reading 'smalltalk, objects, and
>>>>>>>>>> design, by Chamond
>>>>>>>>>> Liu. Is this a good book? I know the 'blue book'
>>>>>>>>>> exists, but it
>>>>>>>>>> assumes you can already program.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, it is a very good book. But also keep in mind
>>>>>>>>> we wrote a book
>>>>>>>>> specifically for newcomers to Cuis!
>>>>>>>>> github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/T...
>>>>>>>>> [https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/TheCuisBook]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is also a good amount of documentation in the
>>>>>>>>> Documentation folder
>>>>>>>>> in Cuis, in github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/L...
>>>>>>>>> [https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Learning-Cuis]
>>>>>>>>> and in
>>>>>>>>> github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/L...
>>>>>>>>> [https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Learning-Cuis] .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My second question was the resolution of the VM. I
>>>>>>>>>> noticed VS squeak
>>>>>>>>>> the windows were much smaller (higher resolution
>>>>>>>>>> screen layout) than
>>>>>>>>>> Cuis, this really isn't a problem, more so, did I
>>>>>>>>>> not configure
>>>>>>>>>> something correctly? Please excuse my ignorance.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Joseph
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Both in Squeak and in Cuis you can evaluate
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Display extent
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to get the size of the Display as seen by Smalltalk.
>>>>>>>>> It is best if this
>>>>>>>>> matches the physical screen resolution (although
>>>>>>>>> that is not the default
>>>>>>>>> on MacBooks). In any case, the difference you see is
>>>>>>>>> because in Cuis the
>>>>>>>>> default fonts are larger than Squeak's. This is
>>>>>>>>> configurable in Cuis.
>>>>>>>>> Play a bit with the World menu.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Juan Vuletich
>>>>>>>>> www.cuis-smalltalk.org
>>>>>>>>> [http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org]
>>>>>>>>> github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/C...
>>>>>>>>> [https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev]
>>>>>>>>> github.com/jvuletich [https://github.com/jvuletich]
>>>>>>>>> www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vu...
>>>>>>>>> [https://www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vuletich-75611b3]
>>>>>>>>> @JuanVuletich
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Cuis-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
>>>>>>>>> lists.cuis.st/mailman/listi...
>>>>>>>>> [https://lists.cuis.st/mailman/listinfo/cuis-dev]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Juan Vuletich
>>>>>>> www.cuis-smalltalk.org [http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/C...
>>>>>>> [https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> github.com/jvuletich [https://github.com/jvuletich]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vu...
>>>>>>> [https://www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vuletich-75611b3]
>>>>>>> @JuanVuletich
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cuis-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> Cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
>>>>>>> lists.cuis.st/mailman/listi...
>>>>>>> [https://lists.cuis.st/mailman/listinfo/cuis-dev]
>>> --
>>> Cuis-dev mailing list
>>> Cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
>>> lists.cuis.st/mailman/listi...
>>> [https://lists.cuis.st/mailman/listinfo/cuis-dev]
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.cuis.st/mailman/archives/cuis-dev/attachments/20210719/87d82f2d/attachment-0001.htm>
More information about the Cuis-dev
mailing list