[Cuis-dev] fileout. proposed 2 new methods for strict file chunks reading

Wed Oct 20 08:34:23 PDT 2021

Hi Nicola,

I want to apologize because I think that the tone of my message was
bad. I meant to be humorous in referring to programmers' opinions,
but instead I think that my message sounded negative and critical.
I'm sorry for that.

I do see your point here, and thank you for taking the time to explain it.

Dave

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 10:01:55AM +0200, Nicola Mingotti via Cuis-dev wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> for me it is not a religious matter. You guys can decide whatever you wish
> and we'll still be friends;)
> 
> I came from an academic background so I believe I should try
> to convince my colleagues what I say has validity, opinions are not all 
> the same,
> permit me to insist a bit. There will not be a follow up to this, 
> insistence ends here.
> 
> Monday i wanted to read some stupid lines from a log files
> and I COULD NOT do it easily and CORRECTLY because the function 'upTo' 
> has logical
> issues related to undecidability of its output.
> 
> So, i had to:
> 1) detect the problem
> 2) rewrite the correct 'upTo' my self
> => A novice programmer can't do that, he take the sort path and stick 
> with the bugous implementation.
> => sooner or later the program will brake
> 
> I tried to understand where this stuff come from, and i see it comes
> from far away. See "Draft Smalltalk Ansi Smalltalk Standard pg. 280"
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiZsPmMutjzAhUKgP0HHdsOAyAQFnoECCQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.squeak.org%2Fsqueak%2Fuploads%2F172%2Fstandard_v1_9-indexed.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3BMiGjnp2vgwHcPe3e2_Ue
> 
> This is a problem. On the other side, it can be written on the Bible 
> itself, but this function has
> logical issues and this is undeniable. Now that I see it is also in the 
> Standard it is not wise
> to change the function 'upTo' but it is definitely worth to give programmers
> the opportunity not to make things wrong providing a method they can 
> trust: 'strictUpTo'.
> 
> 
> bye
> Nicola
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/20/21 03:10, David T. Lewis via Cuis-dev wrote:
> >Hi Nicola,
> >
> >On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 03:32:08PM +0200, Nicola Mingotti via Cuis-dev 
> >wrote:
> >>Hi Hernan,
> >>
> >>In all frankness, in I would wipe out the old 'upTo' because its
> >>behavior is a bit "wild".
> >>
> >If you put a hundred programmers in a room, you will get a thousand
> >opinions about things that are needed for programmers.
> >
> >The semantics of PositionableStream>>upTo: are clearly defined in the
> >method comment. Implementing #strictUpTo: is a reasonable thing to do,
> >but as Hernan has suggested it does not need to be in the base image.
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >
> >>On the other side, I understand it may create problems in
> >>retro-compatibility, that is why for
> >>the moment i propose to add a new method which behaves a bit better.
> >>
> >>I hope this example explains the problem:
> >>-------------------------------------------------------
> >>s _ 'hello-1Ahello-2Ahel'.
> >>'/tmp/test.txt' asFileEntry fileContents: s.
> >>
> >>st1 _ '/tmp/test.txt' asFileEntry readStream .
> >>
> >>st1 upTo: $A. " 'hello-1' "
> >>st1 upTo: $A. " 'hello-2' "
> >>st1 upTo: $A. " 'hel' "???????????????? "(*)"
> >>------------------------------------------------------
> >>(*) You can't establish in any way if you actually found an "A"
> >>terminated block or just hit the end of file
> >>(*) If you hit the end of file you eat an incomplete record, this is
> >>another problem, maybe another process
> >>was going to end writing that record but you will never know.
> >>
> >>Maybe there is another method around that performs similarly to
> >>'strictUpTp', if there is I did not find it, sorry.
> >>
> >>IMHO, In a scale of importance from 0 to 10, this method, for a
> >>programmer, >= 8.
> >>I would definitely not put it into an external package, too much
> >>fundamental.
> >>
> >>bye
> >>Nicola
> >>
> >>
> >>On 10/19/21 14:44, Hernan Wilkinson wrote:
> >>>Hi Nicola!
> >>>??I was wondering, why are you suggesting adding them to the base? Is
> >>>it not enough??to implement them as an extension in your package?
> >>>??Also, I think that any new functionality??should come with its
> >>>corresponding tests to help the maintenance and understanding of the
> >>>functionality.
> >>>
> >>>Cheers!
> >>>Hernan.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 7:04 AM Nicola Mingotti via Cuis-dev
> >>><cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>    Hi Juan, guys,
> >>>
> >>>    I would like to add to Cuis the 2 methods i attach here. One is a
> >>>    helper method.
> >>>
> >>>    -----------
> >>>    StandardFileStream strictUpTo: delim.
> >>>    -----------
> >>>
> >>>    Differently from 'upTo: delim' this method:
> >>>    1. Does not return stuff if it does not find 'delim'.
> >>>    2. Does not upgrade the position on the stream if does not find
> >>>    'delim'.
> >>>    3. If it finds 'delim' returns a chunk that includes it.
> >>>
> >>>    I am parsing log files at the moment, this is very much useful.
> >>>
> >>>    NOTE. Up to now I tested only on small files.
> >>>
> >>>    bye
> >>>    Nicola
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>    --
> >>>    Cuis-dev mailing list
> >>>    Cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
> >>>    https://lists.cuis.st/mailman/listinfo/cuis-dev
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-- 
> >>><https://10pines.com/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  Hern??n Wilkinson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>    Software Developer & Coach
> >>>
> >>>Alem 896, Floor 6, Buenos Aires, Argentina
> >>>
> >>>+54 11 6091 3125
> >>>
> >>>@HernanWilkinson
> >>>
> >>-- 
> >>Cuis-dev mailing list
> >>Cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
> >>https://lists.cuis.st/mailman/listinfo/cuis-dev
> 
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