[Cuis-dev] VectorEnginePlugin: parts in motion

[Joseph Turco]

Yeah I've used "server" Linux distributions before. Headless is another term. I have no problem finding my way around the command line but i wouldn't call myself an expert lol. I've done it before to code in python, and when I tried learning lisp and APL. As I've mentioned before, there is a bare metal smalltalk "OS" someone has made that boots into the original smalltalk 80. Its only for raspberry pis so your point on drivers is true. Its a very specific. Hardware platform its supporting. Imagine doing that for a a lot of stuff for modern smalltalk "OS". That would be massive project....

Aug 9, 2021 3:19:44 AM Nicola Mingotti <nmingotti at gmail.com>:

> 
> Very good description Ken !
> 
> 
> Joseph, one thing is the operating system, one thing is the GUI.
> 
> In Windows and Mac they are fused into a single being but it is not necessarily the same.
> 
> In Linux (Unix) you can install the operating system + basic utilities without the GUI. This is classic, we do it 99%
> of times in servers. If you install like that you get a black screen and a shell when you boot your computer.
> 
> If you install Cuis on top of that there is no problem, because Linux is talking the the machine,
> and Cuis is talking to Linux.  I made a video about it. https://youtu.be/MkRL83QsVh0
> 
> Since Smalltalk was born to talk to the machine directly, that is, it was the operating system once,
> it is not impossible to run it that way. But as I told you once ;) this opens the huge problem of drivers.
> Do you think you will have wifi ? NO. Do you think you will have USB support ? NO ... And I tell
> you this because (I am not hardware expert) less used OS face this kind of problem.
> if you want a practical proof try to run OpenBSD or FreeBSD in RPi then tell me what misses ;) And these are already "popular" operating system.
> 
> bye
> Nicola
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/8/21 11:50 PM, Juan Vuletich wrote:
>> Nice! This is the most reasonable way to set up a "Cuis Notebook"!
>> 
>> On 8/8/2021 12:06 PM, ken.dickey--- via Cuis-dev wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-07 15:58, Joseph Turco wrote:
>>> 
>>>> You were able to get Cuis to start without windowing and use it?
>>>> Meaning booting into a console and starting Cuis? Kinda like using
>>>> Cuis as "the" operating system?
>>> 
>>> Yes.
>>> 
>>> I like simplicity and think about "value added".  Where can I add value?
>>> 
>>> Doing device drivers, setting up page tables, interrupt code, writing file systems and network drivers and testing them et cetera is _not_ where my interests and abilities reside.
>>> 
>>> So why not use a minimalist Linux "OS shim".  Like using Git. Leverage other people's work and do fun things in Smalltalk!
>>> 
>>> As Smalltalk pre-dated _other_ window systems, there is a FrameBuffer display option, vm-display-fbdev.
>>> 
>>> So one can use a minimalist Linux, like Alpine Linux, which uses BusyBox for basic utilities and MUSL in place of libc.  It was made to be a clean & secure router solution.  You can also "startxfce4" if you install XFCE, but it boots into a console. Armbian Linux in another good, reliable solution for SBCs.
>>> 
>>> I will write something up in the wiki after my latest fix gets released.
>>> 
>>> Basically, one used command line arguments or shell variables to set up for mouse/keyboard/framebuffer and things just work.
>>> 
>>> In the OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/platforms/unix/vm-display-fbdev there are notes on how to set things up.
>>> 
>>> E.g. in my .bashrc
>>> 
>>> # to allow    'squeak <image>"
>>> # rather than 'squeak -vm-display-fbdev -fbdev /dev/fb0 <image>'
>>> export SQUEAK_KBDEV=/dev/input/event0
>>> export SQUEAK_VM=display-fbdev
>>> export SQUEAK_FBDEV=/dev/fb0
>>> export SQUEAK_MSDEV=/dev/input/event1
>>> 
>>> Depending on your hardware, mouse and keyboard may be bound to different input devices.  If the default keyboard is not right, you have to get me to help or to wait until my fix for this is released into opensmalltlk-vm.
>>> 
>>> You need libevdev and framebuffer support libraries.  Again, check the notes in the text files.
>>> 
>>> ls -lasth /dev/fb*
>>> ls -lasth /dev/input/*
>>> 
>>> Should tell you if these libs are already installed.  Again, see the *Notes.txt in the vm-display-fbdev directory.  If available, teach your system to boot into console mode and have a go.
>>> 
>>> Good on ya,
>>> -KenD
>>> 
>> 
>>