[Cuis-dev] Hello, new Cuis smalltalk user here!
Nicola Mingotti
nmingotti at gmail.com
Mon Jul 19 05:52:52 PDT 2021
Ops, probably I raised the ARM thing suggesting to run in BeagleBone or
RPi.
I still never run Cuis there. I just supposed it should work, excuse me.
I think i run Squeak there some time ago, but i can't be sure 100%.
bye
n.
On 7/19/21 1:40 PM, Joseph Turco via Cuis-dev wrote:
> Its the cog version, not stack. By lag btw I mean dragging windows are
> choppy. Typing is not as real time as it should me. Its the latest
> version on the opensmalltalk git
>
>
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> On Jul 19, 2021, 7:37 AM, Bruce O'Neel < bruce.oneel at pckswarms.ch> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Just out of interest the Cog interpreter rather than the stack
> one? The Cog one is a JIT and much faster.
>
> squeak -version
>
> will tell you this. Send it to me if it is unclear.
>
> cheers
>
> bruce
>
> On 2021-07-19T13:32:20.000+02:00, Joseph Turco
> <jturk90 at protonmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah see I think that's my problem. Its a RPI zero w. 512mb
> ram and a single core 1ghz processor. I guess it needs a RPI
> 3b+ and faster. Oh well I guess its smalltalk-80 for now.
>
>
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> On Jul 19, 2021, 7:29 AM, Bruce O'Neel <
> bruce.oneel at pckswarms.ch <mailto:bruce.oneel at pckswarms.ch>> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I run Squeak, so same VM but not the same Image, on both a
> PI3B+ and a PI400. Both don't give the impression of
> being laggy, but.... I am running them using X11 remote
> displays. So therefore my "boy this is slow" reaction
> will be absorbed by "network seems slow."
>
> I know others who use Squeak on PI4s and seem happy.
>
> cheers
>
> bruce
>
> On 2021-07-19T13:23:11.000+02:00, Joseph Turco
> <jturk90 at protonmail.com <mailto:jturk90 at protonmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Its funny you bring up arm Bruce,
>
> I tried to get Cuis to run on my raspberry pi zero W
> as my PC is having some major issues (its over 10
> years old) and I wasn't surprised, but it was very
> slow and laggy. I'm assuming the CPU isn't enough for
> it. You have ideas on how I could optimize it? I may
> end up having to use the c++ original smalltalk-80
> baremetal that came out recently...
>
>
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> On Jul 19, 2021, 7:08 AM, Bruce O'Neel <
> bruce.oneel at pckswarms.ch
> <mailto:bruce.oneel at pckswarms.ch>> wrote:
>
>
> In terms of 64 bit ARM....
>
> RPF (Raspberry PI Foundation) recently donated
> optimized bitblt for ARM64 [1] like they had done
> in the past for ARM32. This is not in a current
> VM for long and not very interesting reasons but
> soonish they will be.
>
> If I remember I'll send a note around when ARM64
> should speed up on the graphics side.
>
> cheers
>
> bruce
>
> [1]. - Squeak - Dev - BitBlt performance work for
> ARM32 & 64
> <http://forum.world.st/BitBlt-performance-work-for-ARM32-amp-64-td5128015.html>
>
> On 2021-07-17T10:20:55.000+02:00, Gerald Klix via
> Cuis-dev <cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
> <mailto:cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st>> wrote:
>
> Hi Joseph,
>
>
>
> see below.
>
>
>
> On 7/17/21 12:23 AM, Joseph Turco via Cuis-dev
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ah OK got it. For the record I wasn't
> downplaying or hating Cuis. I really enjoy
> using it. Speaking of ARM, it would be
> interesting to see how it runs on a
> raspberry pi4 4 or 8GB model.
>
>
> It's ok as long you don't use to big a display
> size.
>
> 1920x1080 works well, even with the
> VectorGrahics package
>
> (as long you use the plugin).
>
>
>
> With one 3840x2160 monitor (or TV) you can
> watch it drawing
>
> windows on X11. The Linux frame-buffer driver
> (thanks again Ken)
>
> seems to be a bit faster. AFIK X11 uses the
> frame-buffer on Raspbian,
>
> therefore it's no surprise that another layer
> of indirection
>
> just makes it slower.
>
> It gives you this nice vintage feeling
>
> described here:
>
> www.righto.com/2017/10/the-... <https://www.righto.com/2017/10/the-xerox-alto-smalltalk-and-rewriting.html>
>
>
>
> 'the team described performance as between
> "majestic" and "glacial"'
>
>
>
>
>
> I also tried two 3840x2160 in portrait mode.
>
> Graphics performance is somewhere between
> glacial
>
> and tectonic, but -- hey -- it works.
>
>
>
> All of this was done with 64-bit kernel
>
> and a 32bit user-space.
>
>
>
> I presume all if this would be much faster,
>
> if the VM used OpenVG
>
> (www.khronos.org/files/openv... <http://www.khronos.org/files/openvg-quick-reference-card.pdf>)
>
>
>
>
>
> Just my 0.01€,
>
>
>
> Gerald
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> On Jul 16, 2021, 2:52 PM, Phil B via
> Cuis-dev wrote:
>
> Hi Joseph,
>
> Smalltalk in general will feel a bit
> laggy vs most other environments just
> given the nature of how the VM works
> and how the image processes input.
> (i.e. it's very indirect) Cuis input
> handling does not feel as fluid to me
> as a Squeak image. This is one area I
> suspect Squeak has put a bit more
> effort into than we have to date. I
> feel it even on relatively snappy
> multi-GHz, multi-core machines and it
> does start to get painful on
> single-core 1GHz ARM boards if you do
> much beyond just typing.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 2:39 PM Joseph
> Turco via Cuis-dev
> <cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
> <mailto:cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st>> wrote:
>
> I am running it on a Core 2 duo
> vpro (64 bit) with 2GB of ram. I
> am planning on upgrading the ram
> and swapping out the HDD with a
> SSD or another mechanical drive.
> I'm using the squeak VM that is
> listed in the install
> instructions, and I've also used
> the one that's built into the
> "Cuis university" package. I moved
> the wireless keyboard receiver to
> the front of my computer and it
> helped. But I get slight hiccups
> with input very rarely now. I
> never got it in official squeak
> packages (v5.3). It might be my
> computer as its aged as you can
> tell from what processor family I
> am quoting.
>
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> On Jul 16, 2021, 12:35 PM, Juan
> Vuletich < juan at jvuletich.org
> <mailto:juan at jvuletich.org>> wrote:
>
> Cuis should run reasonably
> well on anything with at least
> 1GHz and 2GB. What CPU are you
> using ? How much RAM? What VM?
> Is that a 32bit or 64bit OS?
> Do you feel keyboard input lag
> on Squeak too? Other apps? Do
> you see mouse lag too?
>
> On 7/15/2021 11:00 AM, Joseph
> Turco via Cuis-dev wrote:
>
> Juan I had another
> question for you or anyone
> really. On my desktop
> (she's a bit old) I'm
> getting some input lag.
> The distro I'm using is
> AntiX, and doesn't use
> system.d. is this a
> problem for Cuis?
>
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>
> -------- Original Message
> --------
> On Jul 14, 2021, 2:34 PM,
> Juan Vuletich via Cuis-dev
> < cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
> <mailto:cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st>>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Joseph,
>
> On 7/14/2021 3:24 PM,
> Joseph Turco via
> Cuis-dev wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I hope I am not
> bothering anyone
> with this
> question(s), I am
> a new
> smalltalker and
> programmer. I
> decided to use
> Cuis because its
> more in
> line with
> smalltalk-80,
> where its easier
> to find beginner
> (beginner in
> the programming
> sense) books.
>
>
> Welcome to Smalltalk
> and Cuis!
>
> I am currently
> reading
> 'smalltalk,
> objects, and
> design, by Chamond
> Liu. Is this a
> good book? I know
> the 'blue book'
> exists, but it
> assumes you can
> already program.
>
>
> Yes, it is a very good
> book. But also keep in
> mind we wrote a book
> specifically for
> newcomers to Cuis!
> github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/T...
> <https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/TheCuisBook>
>
> There is also a good
> amount of
> documentation in the
> Documentation folder
> in Cuis, in
> github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/L...
> <https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Learning-Cuis>
> and in
> github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/L...
> <https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Learning-Cuis>
> .
>
> My second question
> was the resolution
> of the VM. I
> noticed VS squeak
> the windows were
> much smaller
> (higher resolution
> screen layout) than
> Cuis, this really
> isn't a problem,
> more so, did I not
> configure
> something
> correctly? Please
> excuse my ignorance.
>
> - Joseph
>
>
> Both in Squeak and in
> Cuis you can evaluate
>
> Display extent
>
> to get the size of the
> Display as seen by
> Smalltalk. It is best
> if this
> matches the physical
> screen resolution
> (although that is not
> the default
> on MacBooks). In any
> case, the difference
> you see is because in
> Cuis the
> default fonts are
> larger than Squeak's.
> This is configurable
> in Cuis.
> Play a bit with the
> World menu.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Juan Vuletich
> www.cuis-smalltalk.org
> <http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org>
> github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/C...
> <https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev>
> github.com/jvuletich
> <https://github.com/jvuletich>
> www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vu...
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vuletich-75611b3>
> @JuanVuletich
>
> --
> Cuis-dev mailing list
> Cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
> <mailto:Cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st>
> lists.cuis.st/mailman/listi...
> <https://lists.cuis.st/mailman/listinfo/cuis-dev>
>
>
> --
> Juan Vuletich
> www.cuis-smalltalk.org
> <http://www.cuis-smalltalk.org>
>
> github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/C...
> <https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev>
>
> github.com/jvuletich
> <https://github.com/jvuletich>
>
> www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vu...
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/juan-vuletich-75611b3>
> @JuanVuletich
>
> --
> Cuis-dev mailing list
> Cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
> <mailto:Cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st>
> lists.cuis.st/mailman/listi...
> <https://lists.cuis.st/mailman/listinfo/cuis-dev>
>
>
> --
>
> Cuis-dev mailing list
>
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>
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>
>
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