[Cuis-dev] Cuis Smalltalk Draft Wikipedia Page finally reviewed -- and REJECTED

[Joseph Turco]

Wow. Now I know why some wikipedia entries do not exist, yet we can have
things like bigfoot or other folklore on the site. Unbelievable.Who's up
for submitting Dr Geo in a scientific paper?

regards,

Joseph Turco

On Tue, Jun 11, 2024 at 5:59 PM ken.dickey--- via Cuis-dev <
cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st> wrote:

> Perhaps you can help.
>
> I submitted a draft web page last February
>
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Cuis_Smalltalk
>
> The TalkBack Discussion is:
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk#June_11
>
> vvv===vvv===vvv
>      66.165.31.64 (talk · contribs) (TB)
>          Draft:Cuis Smalltalk (edit | talk | history | links | watch |
> logs)
>
> KenD>>I have no real idea why this page was rejected or what corrections
> might be made to be acceptable. It is a bit like submitting a draft of a
> book and having it rejected because "there is a missing comma
> somewhere". This page was submitted in February, and as an old retired
> guy who does not write web pages or Wikipedia entries for a living, I
> have tried to follow your formats to the best of my poor abilities. Can
> you give me some help here? I can not see why Cuis is the only major
> dialect of Smalltalk with no Wikipedia web page.
> Perhaps note/mark places for improvement? I really have no idea what,
> specifically, is bring objected to. 66.165.31.64 (talk) 19:18, 11 June
> 2024 (UTC)
>
>      We don't cite GitHub (no editorial oversight) or ResearchGate (no
> editorial oversight). —Jéské Couriano v^_^v threads critiques 19:22, 11
> June 2024 (UTC)
>
> KenD>>  Excuse me! Just because masters theses or conference talks (e.g.
> https://smalltalks2023.fast.org.ar/talks) are not "editorialized" does
> not make reliable, verifiable information "go away". You can easily
> download, say, https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis7-0 and verify all
> aspects and claims. Don't you believe software is real if it is open
> source and available from GitHub? You seem to be eliding much of the
> world here via editorial solipsism. Have you looked at the references
> and seen any invalid information? Surely you must accept some aspects of
> the world which exists outside of an encyclopedia. Some information is
> self validating by its existence. KennethDickey (talk) 19:52, 11 June
> 2024 (UTC)
>
>      @KennethDickey, what is being said here we don't provide proper
> editorial oversight or in depth fact checking on the content either.
> This is why the article needs be based on what others not connected to
> the subject have said about it in what we consider reliable sources.
> This means the sources used must show us there is impact on the greater
> world though the independent and significant coverage in these reliable
> sources. Github, Researchgate or theses do not achieve any of these
> criteria. You can use connected source for simple uncontestable facts,
> but again they will not help to demonstrate how they impact the greater
> world. McMatter (talk)/(contrib) 20:06, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
>
>      @KennethDickey: The problem here is that we are looking for evidence
> a subject is notable by Wikipedia's terms, not that a draft's subject
> exists. Existence has never been a criterion for inclusion. There is
> also the matter that the bulk of your sources are to GitHub, which does
> not exercise editorial oversight in the journalism sense (i.e.
> corrections, retractions, fact-checks). —Jéské Couriano v^_^v threads
> critiques 20:10, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
> ^^^===^^^===^^^
>
> So it appears, to paraphrase, we may exist but unless written up in a
> journal/juried-proceedings we don't matter enough for a web page.
>
> It appears to me that FAST talks and SIGPLAN papers are not in
> consideration.
>
> I am once again frustrated/irritated by the procrustean Wikipedia
> process.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> -KenD
>
> --
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> Cuis-dev at lists.cuis.st
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>
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